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Author Topic: Rudd vs Abbott - the Health Debate  (Read 915 times)

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grooviechickie

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Rudd vs Abbott - the Health Debate
« on: March 23, 2010, 07:51:46 AM »

So is anyone watching/listening to it today? I was just reading the SMH website - apparently it is being streamed online from 12.30pm (http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/weaving-target-proves-hard-to-hit-20100322-qr9x.html).

I'll be at work so here's the spot to give me a (preferably unbiased) rundown of events. :)

Ta.
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GreenFroggie

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Re: Rudd vs Abbott - the Health Debate
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2010, 11:24:12 AM »

There was a bit in today's Age (Melb) where Kev and Tony wrote their own articles, so i assume they printed it in other states as well? What do Fairfax print in NSW/SA as they were they lucky winners I assume? I haven't read the HS as I'm not paying money to read that shite...

I don't think taking over the hospitals is a good idea - better would be to allocate more funding on a state level. Plus Victoria have the best hospitals (apparently) in the country, and the papers here (yes we are biased) are claiming the new system will mean they will get shit and we will lose more funding. Though on the other hand it does make sense to have one national plan, where every hospital is treated equally. Opposition to that though is that the "good" hospitals like RCH and The Alfred will struggle as they will be picking up extra from the crap hospitals who perform badly....(this is already happening, but I assume it would get worse?)

I don't know. It's both good and bad - and if the states don't like it if Kev wins then they an always join up to fight him. Brumby and the NSW chick aren't too sure of Kevs ideas either so as soon as bad news comes through they will jump on it to get the admin back to state level.....one would hope!
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grooviechickie

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Re: Rudd vs Abbott - the Health Debate
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2010, 07:59:41 PM »

Thanks Jo.  :-D
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SG

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Re: Rudd vs Abbott - the Health Debate
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2010, 09:15:22 PM »

Hospitals can be fixed in 3 months.  All that must be done is to break the Health sector unions, introduce genuine efficiency, reward world class performance only and you will either save 30-35% of the healthcare budget or perform approx 50% more procedures.

As usual Union power is not for the good of the masses, it is for the good of the few approved card carrying mantra reciting Marxists who are in love with Sharyn Burow (sp?)

Sg
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Truckarella

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Re: Rudd vs Abbott - the Health Debate
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2010, 10:58:25 PM »

Thank you Seaborgium. 

So you are saying the bottleneck in the health system is just with RNs?  What are your indicators of performance?  Is it duration of stay?  Is it warm and fuzzy feelings?  Is it uptake of services to prevent readmission?   Is this all heading into a special rant where you propose add on services like 'full release nursing'?

No seriously, what have you got?

Emperor Fadeaway

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Re: Rudd vs Abbott - the Health Debate
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2010, 11:02:11 PM »

lol @ Seaborgium
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Re: Rudd vs Abbott - the Health Debate
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2010, 11:04:58 PM »

SG thinks everything will be solved if only the medical professionals worked harder and stopped bludging.

Just like the wharfies used to.
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SG

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Re: Rudd vs Abbott - the Health Debate
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2010, 11:32:53 PM »

Thank you Seaborgium. 

No probs.

So you are saying the bottleneck in the health system is just with RNs?

Where did I say that????

The key problem in hospitals with Union power is twofold:

1) Simple tasks are governed by archaic restrictive work practices.  Get rid of those and you get an immediate 12% benefit
2) The Unions are so dominant in the sector that there are entire floors of bureaucracy devoted to dealing with them.  Unions out = administrators greatly reduced.

Then you get into scheduling using AGVs (automatic guided vehicles).  That takes out about 150 low skilled jobs in a large hospital and delivers a further 8.25% efficiency as a minimum, they work 24/7, no break etc and with proper maintenance practices are now virtually breakdown free for teh first 5 years of service life.

  What are your indicators of performance? 

You take best of breed KPIs from the sector and apply these.  You takebest of breed costs from teh sector and apply these as the cost that the state will pay to private enterprise.  It will have to be private because the public service is full of fuckwits who actually benefit from excessive Union power (refer bureaucrats above).

That then means the private sector is responsible for making a profit whilst delivering services as effectively (in terms of cost which we all know drives private enterprise) as the very best provider in the public system.  i.e. what used to be the best is now the minimum acceptable level.

Is it duration of stay?

To make a profit private will make the stay as short as possible.  Any recurrence will be treated at the providers cost ergo they will want no recurrences so they will ensure full healing to best of their ability.  I envisage that after a couple of days in a full ward when patients are just in need of bed rest they will be transferred to what is effectively a hotel wing with greatly reduced costs.

  Is it warm and fuzzy feelings?  Is it uptake of services to prevent readmission?

Nope.  It's about defining the problem, determining the current most cost effetive way to treat it and paying that and no more whilst allowing private enterprise to determine how they will make a profit free from restrictive work practices.

  Is this all heading into a special rant where you propose add on services like 'full release nursing'?

I have no problem with that, it's a valid commercial transaction.  Wasn't on my list but feel free to add it.

No seriously, what have you got?

Plenty.

Plus I have a radical funding model that will get the public investing in health care but that remains commercial in confidence.

SG
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Re: Rudd vs Abbott - the Health Debate
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2010, 11:35:13 PM »

SG thinks everything will be solved if only the medical professionals worked harder and stopped bludging.

You are such a constrained and limited thinker.  A robot.  Nothing more than a sum of those poorly articulated inputs that made it into your brain, never to be evaluated or challenged, merely applied.

Just like the wharfies used to.

And still do.

Patrick's only got a 75% victory.

SG
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Truckarella

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Re: Rudd vs Abbott - the Health Debate
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2010, 11:47:27 PM »

No probs.

Where did I say that????

The key problem in hospitals with Union power is twofold:

1) Simple tasks are governed by archaic restrictive work practices.  Get rid of those and you get an immediate 12% benefit
2) The Unions are so dominant in the sector that there are entire floors of bureaucracy devoted to dealing with them.  Unions out = administrators greatly reduced.

Then you get into scheduling using AGVs (automatic guided vehicles).  That takes out about 150 low skilled jobs in a large hospital and delivers a further 8.25% efficiency as a minimum, they work 24/7, no break etc and with proper maintenance practices are now virtually breakdown free for teh first 5 years of service life.

It was a question.  Who makes up e members of the HSUs?  I didn't know if it included cleaning, patient transport etc etc staff.  I was guessing it didn't include surgeons etc.  How much increase in efficiency can our doctor/specialist numbers cope with?

What kind of maintenance tasks can be performed by these robot borg horses of which you speak?

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Re: Rudd vs Abbott - the Health Debate
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2010, 11:47:45 PM »

You are such a constrained and limited thinker.  A robot.  Nothing more than a sum of those poorly articulated inputs that made it into your brain, never to be evaluated or challenged, merely applied.

Using the same observations that I've used against you won't get you very far :)

Anything original?

And still do.

Patrick's only got a 75% victory.

Yeh, well 75% percent made a huge fucking difference. I'm still celebrating all these years later.
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Emperor Fadeaway

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Re: Rudd vs Abbott - the Health Debate
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2010, 11:50:05 PM »

Plus I have a radical funding model that will get the public investing in health care but that remains commercial in confidence.

OMG SG.

We're so lucky to have you here on our little board, when you're clearly such a powerful person!

*gushes*
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SG

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Re: Rudd vs Abbott - the Health Debate
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2010, 11:38:25 PM »

It was a question.  Who makes up e members of the HSUs?  I didn't know if it included cleaning, patient transport etc etc staff.  I was guessing it didn't include surgeons etc.  How much increase in efficiency can our doctor/specialist numbers cope with?

Shitloads.

We rank very poorly on this scale when measured internationally.

Opthamalgic surgeons are perhaps the ideal example.  Modern technology (i.e. lasers) has turned what used to be a four hour operation into a 5 minute one (retinal detachment correction).  They can do 30 a day it's now that easy.

But the fees charged per patient have not decreased.

This should be corrected.

The AMA is probably the worst closed shop Union in the country.


What kind of maintenance tasks can be performed by these robot borg horses of which you speak?

Generally they do transport activities - results, files, samples etc.  Put your item in a sealed drawer, tell it where to go and off it wanders plotting the most efficient route to deliver all items.  Can be called to any station it passes, doesn't need meal breaks, costs less than 1 year's salary for a wardperson yet works 24/7.

SG
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Re: Rudd vs Abbott - the Health Debate
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2010, 11:41:16 PM »

Using the same observations that I've used against you won't get you very far :)

Anything original?

There is nothing original in this world Fadey.

Plus if you go check you'll find I was throwing this one at you way before you came up with teh "oh so clever" tactic of just cutting and pasting my arguments in a move designed to lift the chance of you winning and argument.

You're a failure of epic proportions.

Yeh, well 75% percent made a huge fucking difference. I'm still celebrating all these years later.

Yes, I guess for you would be.  One day you'll get a life.

SG
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grooviechickie

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Re: Rudd vs Abbott - the Health Debate
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2010, 06:32:38 AM »

The AMA is probably the worst closed shop Union in the country.
I heard that the AMA decide how many doctors are allowed to practice etc. Is that true?
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