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[grooviechickie]

but what we now have as our modern set of ethics are mostly based on religious beliefs and ideas that were developed and spread to the population via the religious channels.

I would think that modern ethics is more likely based on existentialism.

[Bookworm.]

Again, you're not talking about ethics, you're talking about morals and personal worth (for lack of a better way of describing it). Just because you know the big word doesn't mean you should use it.

[grooviechickie]

Actually, I just found a good website on existentialism and Satre.

Gotta love the opening:

WOODY ALLEN:  That's quite a lovely Jackson Pollock, isn't it?

GIRL IN MUSEUM:  Yes it is.

WOODY ALLEN:  What does it say to you?

GIRL IN MUSEUM:  It restates the negativeness of the universe, the hideous lonely emptiness of existence, nothingness, the predicament of man forced to live in a barren, godless eternity, like a tiny flame flickering in an immense void, with nothing but waste, horror, and degradation, forming a useless bleak straightjacket in a black absurd cosmos.

WOODY ALLEN:  What are you doing Saturday night?

GIRL IN MUSEUM:  Committing suicide.

WOODY ALLEN:  What about Friday night?

GIRL IN MUSEUM: [leaves silently]

[grooviechickie]

I think that morals are a personal code, whereas ethics are more of a group/social code.

So what are we discussing, morals or ethics?

[Bookworm.]

We are discussing ethics as I've been saying for a while now. I even defined them thus earlier today.

[grooviechickie]

Ah yes, so you did. *special moment*

I'm just tired I guess, and should be in bed instead of on the computer. I have a busy day ahead of me tomorrow.

I'll discuss this later.  See you tomorrow night.

[Bookworm.]

Yes, best not to argue when tired. Being a forum it will always be here.

Good night

[Wolfe Tone]

You just put a disclaimer on your point that proves mine. What has been translated into law (and that are considered to be ethics) are descended from religious thinking. Don't kill, don't steal, don't be unfaithful in relationships etc. Sound familiar? (I'm reading exodus at the moment...)

I would have thought those values were inate and definately predate christianity. Hence why every religion says it. In the same passages in exodus, it says stone a man who lays with his own kind. Religion clearly hasn't got the power over law that you are suggesting. (Have read a lot of exodus and leviticus. Also Matthew and Mark.)

[Thaluikhain]

You just put a disclaimer on your point that proves mine. What has been translated into law (and that are considered to be ethics) are descended from religious thinking. Don't kill, don't steal, don't be unfaithful in relationships etc. Sound familiar? (I'm reading exodus at the moment...)

No, religious ethics evolved from the ethics of the societies the religion evolved from.  You have to have restrictions on stealing and killing otherwise your society doesn't get far enough to develop much of a religion.

[grooviechickie]

Yes, what Thal said.

Books, do you really think that everyone was running around with no purpose or direction, no rules (inner and outer), and were basically savages before the bible turned up?

And what about ethics from previous Gods and Goddesses?

The bible gave people rules from "God", but they were written by men. These men may have been transcribing/prophesying, but the bible was edited by the church... so really, you got an abridged version with bits left out that could have changed the meaning of those rules etc.

I am positive there were many people who weren't believers, and questioned the bible right from the beginning. It simply can't be true that everyone swallowed it hook, line and sinker.

And look at all that's been done in the name of God. His first rule, Thou Shalt Not Kill, was (is) ignored a hell of a lot of the time as non-believers were (are) slain (Spanish Inquisition, anyone?).

[Thaluikhain]

By first, do you mean 6th?  The first four are purely religious ones, no god above me, no carven images, no taking the lor'ds name in vain, respect the sabbath, 5 is about parents and 6 is about killing.

Apparently the original translation was closer to "murder" though...don't kill when you're not allowed to kill.  And, during the crusades, it was revealed that god was misquoted or made a typo on the stone tablets...it only applies to christians,

[Emperor Fadeaway]

A Christian just stuck it right up him. Divine retribution. LOL.

[Wolfe Tone]

But she's a career woman....

[Emperor Fadeaway]

But she meets her future hubby a WYD.

*shudders*

[Pertinax]

Sorry, I thought schools taught, you know, school stuff and you learnt your system of ethics and morality from your family.  Perhaps families in NSW have no ethics that they consider worthy of passing on anymore.  Perhaps parents have finally become so selfish that they no longer consider that they have any responsibility to teach their children anything.

I think he ought to have kept the money and bought better teachers with it.