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[Kelchables]

I'm not too sure we've had any discussion about this on the forums, well not in my time at least. So I thought maybe we could get some interesting whirlpools heading around here. Personally, I am pro-choice, pro-abortion. Because it's not a child being killed, it's a fetus, they're different things. They're just cells, and they haven't formed into a human being. There's no comprehension of life for it, and if it is going to negatively effect the female's life, then there is no point in keeping it. Why raise a child in poor conditions, and ruin your own life? So I was curious what other people think, especially any anti-abortionists.

[Chromefox]

I'm all for it. Generally, I think it's better for a child to grow up in a family that is prepared and who wants it.

[Bookworm.]

I am for abortion for the reasons already stated. However, there are a few things I wanted to point out:

Because it's not a child being killed, it's a fetus, they're different things. They're just cells, and they haven't formed into a human being.

That is a bit of a black and white statement. There are still huge ethical debates going on about when a fetus actually turns into a baby. Because there is no doubt that when a fetus is at nine months and ready to be born that it is a baby and thus human. Currently in NSW they draw the line at 21 weeks (VIC is 24 weeks not sure about the other states) saying that before that it is not human and thus an abortion can take place but after it is human and thus no abortion (excluding extreeme medical conditions). But again this is really black and white. I suppose the line must be drawn somewhere, but to say that a terminated pregnancy is not human is wrong.

There's no comprehension of life for it, and if it is going to negatively effect the female's life, then there is no point in keeping it. Why raise a child in poor conditions, and ruin your own life? So I was curious what other people think, especially any anti-abortionists.

I always wondered why it is always men that dictate it (I'm thinking about the Church at the moment). It is not as if any religious man will ever have to make the choice. Why do they get to dictate something that will never concern them?

[grooviechickie]

I'm pro-choice. There is a fine line which determines when a foetus actually becomes a baby, so the earlier, the better. Much later than around 12-16 weeks becomes blurry, and potentially nasty, territory.

21-24 weeks, Booky? That's shit. Although the baby can't survive outside the womb at that "age", it is still almost fully developed and is more than likely becoming a sentient being.

It must be especially hard on those who find out, through the amniocentesis test performed at 18 weeks, that they are carrying a Down's Syndrome baby and whether to abort at such a late stage or live with a special needs baby.

[Majorie]

I'm against abortion- people need to start living with the consequences of their actions- with the very easy access to contraception these days there really is no excuse for it. Having said that however of course there are always extraneous cicumstances such as rape victims or if  the Mother's health is at risk- however the amount of actual abortions that take place for these reasons would be very slim

[grooviechickie]

msj, contraception doesn't always work - the only contraception that works 100% of the time is abstinance.

[Bookworm.]

Hmmm...maybe 21-24 weeks was off..still I am pretty sure that that is right...

I'm against abortion- people need to start living with the consequences of their actions- with the very easy access to contraception these days there really is no excuse for it. Having said that however of course there are always extraneous cicumstances such as rape victims or if  the Mother's health is at risk- however the amount of actual abortions that take place for these reasons would be very slim

Yeah, if you think about rape victims, their body would be in so much trauma that the actual chance of them falling pregnat is slim-to-none (I think it is actually something like 8% of rape victims that fall pregnant or even less than that).

That said, I think that every woman has to have the ability to decide for themselves. While not compleatly accepting of a thirty something year old woman with a stable job who only aborts so that she doesn't have the inconvienience of a baby, it is all about personal choice.

[Majorie]

msj, contraception doesn't always work - the only contraception that works 100% of the time is abstinance.

true but I honestly think that's the risk you take when you have sex- there is a small chance that the contraception won't work and you may get pregnant therefore are you prepared to live with a baby?- if not don't have sex.

[Erubadhriel]

but there are also people who don't care enough to use contraception, then when they do get pregnant, it's like, oh fuck, what now?

i'm pro choice, leaning towards anti abortion. if the pregnancy causes a major medical risk to the mother, abortion is ok, if they find out that the baby would be so sick, or deformed or whatever that there'd be little to no chance of having any quality of life ever, yeah ok. victims of rape, yeah ok, i can understand that. abortion as contraception,  definitely not.

[Thaluikhain]

Yeah, if you think about rape victims, their body would be in so much trauma that the actual chance of them falling pregnat is slim-to-none (I think it is actually something like 8% of rape victims that fall pregnant or even less than that).

It's not because of the body being in trauma...having sex once is unlikely to get you pregnant.

Though 8% is alot, given the amount of rape victims around.

true but I honestly think that's the risk you take when you have sex- there is a small chance that the contraception won't work and you may get pregnant therefore are you prepared to live with a baby?- if not don't have sex.

While that is true, people don't think like that.

[Bookworm.]

It's not because of the body being in trauma...having sex once is unlikely to get you pregnant.

Huh? As far as I was aware, it only takes one time to get you pregnant. You are just as likely to get pregnant as a virgin then not.

[Erubadhriel]

Huh? As far as I was aware, it only takes one time to get you pregnant. You are just as likely to get pregnant as a virgin then not.

it's all to do with your cycle, apparently there are some days where you're more fertile, more likely to get pregnant than others. of course, that could be a load of shit.

[Thaluikhain]

Huh? As far as I was aware, it only takes one time to get you pregnant. You are just as likely to get pregnant as a virgin then not.

Is you a bit thick?

Yes, it only takes one time to get pregnant.  But then it only takes mone time driving while drunk to crash your car.  You are much more likely to crash you car if you do a lot of drunk driving that just driving while drunk once.

[Adi]

It's not because of the body being in trauma...having sex once is unlikely to get you pregnant.

Though 8% is alot, given the amount of rape victims around.

Sure, having sex once is unlikely to get you pregnant. Having sex twice is more likely to get you pregnant. Having sex 100 times is much more likely to get you pregnant. Unlikely as it is, it's still possible and certainly has happened.

8% sounded pretty high to me too, although not because of the relatively small number of rape victims - after all, 8% is still 8%, no matter how big the sample size, but because of all the other factors involved. After all, women are only fertile for what, 10 or 12 days a month maximum, so that means that, statistically speaking, only 1 in 3 women would even be fertile at the time of the rape. It's less than that, because they're not all of child bearing age, and of course the fertilisation rate is pretty low - there's always a one-off fluke, but I'd be interested to find out the actual rate on that.

So 8% does sound rather high, but I'm no expert.

[Chromefox]

I'm against abortion- people need to start living with the consequences of their actions- with the very easy access to contraception these days there really is no excuse for it. Having said that however of course there are always extraneous cicumstances such as rape victims or if  the Mother's health is at risk- however the amount of actual abortions that take place for these reasons would be very slim

Think about it. The parents deserve to live with the consequences. The children they have don't.