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[Adi]

OK, let's be controversial here for a moment.

During discussions about the upcoming election, a lot of forum members have said things like "I'm not old enough to vote, but if I could, I'd vote for..."

There has been an idea floating around for a while now that voting could be voluntary for 16 & 17 year olds, before becoming compulsory at 18. This idea is supported by the Greens and by some Democrats.

The fact is that there are many young people interested in and savvy about politics. There are plenty of 17 year olds already at uni and 18 year olds still at school, so education levels aren't at issue.

I wholeheartedly support compulsory voting, and I suggest that voluntary voting for 16 & 17 year olds would allow those who are interested and aware to have their say. People of that age who don't give a shit wouldn't have to vote.

Before all you oldies come out and insist that 16 year olds are too young to know what they're doing, remember that people who care about politics tend to develop an interest at an early age. 40 year olds tend not to suddenly become interested; they've always been interested.

Realistically, I don't know how many 16 & 17 years olds would choose to vote, given the chance. I don't think much research has been done on it. It's a policy that will never be brought in by a conservative government, because their support traditionally lies with older voters, and youngsters are more likely to vote left.

I'm interested to know what people think. I'm 21, so it doesn't affect me, but I know that I was just as politically aware at the age of 16 as I am now, and I would have valued having a voice.

[Nev Bartos]

If they want to, why not?

You can quit school, start working & paying taxes at 15?, have sex & take up smoking at 16?, join the armed forces at 17?, but can't vote until you're 18.

If you're in the army, you've got 2 kids & you're smoking 2 packs a day, you should be entitled to vote.  Fortunately, you'd be under the legal drinking age, so your vote is guaranteed to be sober & well considered.

[Invisible Friend.]

I'm 17.
Most of my 18 year old friends hate the fact that they have to vote because it's so much of a hassle that they have to postal vote because they will be doing way more important things like shoolies...
And my 17 year old friends are like yes, I don't have to vote.
So I agree, I can't really see many people wanting to vote at 16/17 when a lot of 18 + people don't even want to vote.
I think it would be a nice idea for voluntary voting though.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Toflu]

I think volutary voting for 16-17 year olds is a good idea. I'm sixteen, and while alot of kids I know are completely clueless about politics (ie. "Is Kevin Rudd the guy with the strippers?"), heaps are very interested and are already active in political parties.

I've heard kids say that even though they can pay tax at 14 and 9 months, the aren't allowed to have a say in how their tax dollars are spent. Likewise, you can leave school and be in a full-time job at 15 - just like any adult - yet you aren't deemed responsible enough to vote.

I think that even though many 16-17 year olds wouldn't use their opportunity to vote, many adults who are legally required to don't take it seriously either - its unfair to say that kids aren't mature enough when we can see the numbers of donkey votes made by adults in each election.

[Truckarella]

They can vote.  For Idol, for Big Brother.  They do, in droves.

Of course the Dems and Greens support the idea, they will reap most of the benefit.  There are some young conservatives out there with the pants hitched high, but mainly younger people favour 'leftish' parties.  What is that old adage?  If you aren't a socialist when you are young, you have no heart.  If you aren't a conservative when you are older, you have no head.

Doesn't the idea of making 16/17 year old voting optional make a mockery of compulsory voting for the over 18s?

[WithTheDawn]

Fuck no. Voting should be left for adults. Little 16 year old girls, running around on the "Yay Rudd!" bandwagon like they know what the fuck is going on don't deserve to get their voice heard.

Having said that, there are plenty of dumbfuck 18 year olds that are like that as well. Perhaps people should have to pass an IQ test before they are allowed to vote. If 16 year olds can pass, then they can as well. That way it stops dumbfucks voting when they don't know whats going on (with the unfortunate consequence of destroying the notion of democracy, but its always been a pretty thin one anyway...right? >_>)

[Adi]

Fuck no. Voting should be left for adults. Little 16 year old girls, running around on the "Yay Rudd!" bandwagon like they know what the fuck is going on don't deserve to get their voice heard.

Having said that, there are plenty of dumbfuck 18 year olds that are like that as well. Perhaps people should have to pass an IQ test before they are allowed to vote. If 16 year olds can pass, then they can as well. That way it stops dumbfucks voting when they don't know whats going on (with the unfortunate consequence of destroying the notion of democracy, but its always been a pretty thin one anyway...right? >_>)

It's not just 18 year olds. Anyone who believes that election "promises" are actually going to happen are just as bad, and a far whack of the population seems to fall into that category.

Because it would be voluntary I suspect that the awareness of the 16 & 17 year olds would actually be higher than that of the adult voting population: there'd be no (deliberate) informal votes because they're choosing to vote - like in the majority of countries, where voting isn't compulsory.

Of course the Dems and Greens support the idea, they will reap most of the benefit.  There are some young conservatives out there with the pants hitched high, but mainly younger people favour 'leftish' parties. 

That's true, as I already mentioned, and that's why I don't think it's going to happen anytime soon. I'd like to know where Labor stand on it, actually, I can't remember them ever having mentioned it.

There are young conservatives around, they ambush people at uni all the time. And if they're conservative at uni, they sure were in high school.

It also makes you wonder why so many youngsters are lefties. Could it have something to do with who's been in government for the last 11 years; something to do with the fact that our generation doesn't hold the same beliefs as those of our parents or grandparents? I think it's more a sign of generational change and being fed up with the current state of things. Rather than being a knee-jerk "yay Rudd"/"yay Greenies" reaction, I think it reflects how young people feel and is therefore a legitimate political view; just as legitimate as oldies who support One Nation because that's the mindset they grew up with during WWII. It doesn't make it right, but it does make it legitimate.

Doesn't the idea of making 16/17 year old voting optional make a mockery of compulsory voting for the over 18s?

I don't think it does. The idea of compulsory voting is that the government truly is chosen by the majority of the population (how well informed that majority is is another matter altogether). It's also designed to negate other factors that stop people from voting in a voluntary situation, such as intimidation, access, even weather, and of course apathy.

The idea of introducing voluntary voting for 16/17 yr olds is to acknowledge their contribution to the country: they work, they pay tax, they can be parents, they can defend the country. If they're particularly interested and concerned, they deserve the right to have their say. They might not know everything about politics but how many 40 year olds do?

[Bill_Steamshovel]

The idea of introducing voluntary voting for 16/17 yr olds is to acknowledge their contribution to the country: they work, they pay tax, they can be parents, they can defend the country. If they're particularly interested and concerned, they deserve the right to have their say. They might not know everything about politics but how many 40 year olds do?

When you say they work and pay tax are you referring to income tax? If you were, then does that mean that we should remove the right to vote from anyone not earning enough income to get past the tax free threshold, like the unemployed and aged pensioners?

Or was it just tax in general? Anyone who spends money pays tax. An eight year old buying a sausage roll from the canteen at school is effectively paying GST. Does that mean we should extend the right to vote to children of any school age? Companies also pay tax, so does that mean that the directors or shareholders of those companies get extra votes?

Let the kiddies wait two more measly years until they reach 18. There's nothing stopping them from participating in the electoral process in other ways, like lobbying their local members or campaigning on behalf of them.

[Adi]

When you say they work and pay tax are you referring to income tax? If you were, then does that mean that we should remove the right to vote from anyone not earning enough income to get past the tax free threshold, like the unemployed and aged pensioners?

Yes, I meant income tax, but I didn't say that I thought paying tax should be the only measure of whether we vote. I was simply using it as an example of how people of that age are treated as full members of society in many other ways but not when it comes to voting.

[Nick 2]

Fuck no. Voting should be left for adults. Little 16 year old girls, running around on the "Yay Rudd!" bandwagon like they know what the fuck is going on don't deserve to get their voice heard.

took the words right out of my hands. the idea of allowing more idiots to vote is abhorrent to me.

[grooviechickie]

Idiots are in each and every age group.

My son, who's nearly 16, would jump at the opportunity to vote. He's very interested in the subject, and he has this one mate with whom he discusses all things political. So that's two intelligent boys who would do a good job voting.

[Nick 2]

knowledge is bunk. experience rules

[Truckarella]

People are getting hung up on the 'quality' of the vote, which seems a bit.... well.... retarded.

Democracy is for everyone.  The stupid, the ignorant, the immature, the ill-thinking voters, the wearers of Crocs, everyone.  We get the representatives we deserve this way.

[Nick 2]

that's exactly why democracy should be scrapped and replaced with a meritocracy. let each man do his own job, leave the running of the country to the competent.

[Lord Biscuit©]

What a ridiculous notion. You want innocent 16 year olds to start taking responsibility for the governments elected? They have enough burden on their shoulders being responsible for the longevity of shows like BB and Idol! Imagine the shame these kids face later in life having to admit they spent money SMSing those shows.