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[a passing lunatic]

sorry - "rolling in it" meaning that the with the funding she's got she has to be just about continuously telling schools that they're losing teachers, not personal income, which really isn't too bad.


and I'm in the NT, and our hospital struggles (partly because the large aboriginal population isn't particularly healthy). I don't know if it's the responsibility of our territory government, but I understood that territories were more directly under the federal government. Yeah, there have been more doctors out bush lately, but I'm not sure how long that will last.

[Bookworm.]

Sorry, I have a cold.  And you should have had a fullstop at the end of that.

Sorry. Oh, and sorry for the other post too....it wasn't very well thought out, was it?

[Adi]

Unis = plenty of funding, just very badly applied.  I was once a potential academic until I realised these people had zero ability to manage money.

I don't doubt that unis have issues managing their funding, I was a student representative on a uni board last year and all they ever cared about was their budget. It was the biggest load of bureacracy I've ever seen.

But it's not just a direct funding issue with unis. When my parents finished uni (my dad in the 90s, so not that long ago) it cost nothing. Zilch. Now I'm going to be up to my eyeballs in HECS debts after six years at uni. If you pay for a full-fee place, the top rate is over $200,000. That's my problem with tertiary education. Not to mention VSU. Our uni's services have gone down the drain since that came in.

The government has been more than unwilling to make uni more affordable; in fact they've gone the other way and not only made it more expensive but reduced services as well. I love being a student, I love uni life. But I'm lucky because I can afford it. Not everyone can.

I wait eagerly for both sides' policy announcements about uni funding/affordibility/services. I doubt either side's will really be satisfactory.

[SG]

I don't doubt that unis have issues managing their funding, I was a student representative on a uni board last year and all they ever cared about was their budget. It was the biggest load of bureacracy I've ever seen.

Do you not see the problem with your first paragraph.....

But it's not just a direct funding issue with unis. When my parents finished uni (my dad in the 90s, so not that long ago) it cost nothing. Zilch.

Um, unless your Dad was a special needs student on some sort of supported placement that is incorrect.  I was being charged HECS in teh late 90s.  From memory it's more a mid 80s cutover point.

Now I'm going to be up to my eyeballs in HECS debts after six years at uni.

What course?

If you pay for a full-fee place, the top rate is over $200,000. That's my problem with tertiary education.

Rank hath its priveleges.

Don't like it then go make some dosh and buy your way in.  Alternatively bust your arse studying to get in.  Or you may be lucky and mum and dad fund your way in bt that usually leads to mediocre uni achievement.

Not to mention VSU. Our uni's services have gone down the drain since that came in.

Big deal.  VSU means that dropkicks don't get free services off people who actually have to work to spport themselves through uni.

The government has been more than unwilling to make uni more affordable; in fact they've gone the other way and not only made it more expensive but reduced services as well. I love being a student, I love uni life. But I'm lucky because I can afford it. Not everyone can.

Why should anyone fund teh love of uni life?

You want it and the longer term benefits then you need to pay for it.

I wait eagerly for both sides' policy announcements about uni funding/affordibility/services. I doubt either side's will really be satisfactory.

You want to go to Uni?  You want the longer term benefits?

Pay for it.

SG

[Adi]

Do you not see the problem with your first paragraph.....

Yes. I can see both sides of an argument. I'm admitting there is a problem.Things have to be changed at the university level too.

Um, unless your Dad was a special needs student on some sort of supported placement that is incorrect.  I was being charged HECS in teh late 90s.  From memory it's more a mid 80s cutover point.

"late" 90s being the operative word. He finished uni in 1990, having started it in the mid 80s, and therefore, under the old system, didn't have to pay.

What course?

For reasons of anonymity I'd rather not say which course I'm studying (and no other reason, so don't go telling me I'm ashamed because I'm doing some 2nd rate course), suffice to say it's a double degree with Honours and it will take me 6 years.

Rank hath its priveleges.

Don't like it then go make some dosh and buy your way in.  Alternatively bust your arse studying to get in.  Or you may be lucky and mum and dad fund your way in bt that usually leads to mediocre uni achievement.

That's a pretty unfair statement. Sure, there are some spoilt little rich kids whose parents pay for their spot and they think that gives them the right to do jack all, but there are a whole host of people who work damn hard and do damn well regardless of their parents' income and/or willingness to pay for their university education.

I work and therefore earn money; I studied hard to get to uni and my parents help me out. So I already do all three of your suggestions. But it's not all about me. There are people who have fewer options, and they deserve to have their needs heard.

Big deal.  VSU means that dropkicks don't get free services off people who actually have to work to spport themselves through uni.

Why should anyone fund teh love of uni life?

a) Without these services there are fewer employment opportunities for those students who do need to work to support themselves through uni. Do you have any idea how many students lost jobs because of these changes?
b) The services weren't free, they were subsidised. Therefore affordable and convenient.
c) It's because of the organisations and clubs that used to be funded by compulsory union fees that this website exists. Where do you think the Chaser got started?

You want to go to Uni?  You want the longer term benefits?

Pay for it.

I do. Thank you. Others can't.

[bollocks]

VSU rocks. i don't care what all the bloody unionist students say.

people ask the government for help with the costs of uni, then complain when they make some fees non-compulsory.

i attend uni, but at the hospital campus, not the main campus.

i don't get any services, not even guild priced coffee.
why on earth i should pay for others to drink at the uni tav when i can't, i don't know.

not only that, but the budget for the social clubs at my uni is higher than that of my department.

more money from student fees is poured into drinking, than essentials for me to learn the practical side of my field.

student unions provide important services?
bugger off.

[Adi]

people ask the government for help with the costs of uni, then complain when they make some fees non-compulsory.

Cutting out $150/semester is not the same as having free (or minimal contribution) university education. It's tokenism.

i attend uni, but at the hospital campus, not the main campus.

i don't get any services, not even guild priced coffee.
why on earth i should pay for others to drink at the uni tav when i can't, i don't know.

not only that, but the budget for the social clubs at my uni is higher than that of my department.

more money from student fees is poured into drinking, than essentials for me to learn the practical side of my field.

I don't drink coffee and I don't drink beer. Amount of money I've spent on the two combined during 4 years of uni = $0. But I respect the rights of other people to have decent prices for whatever they want to drink. Sure, it pisses me off that students spend a fortune on alcohol etc. But that's not gonna change.

Unionism stretched beyond cheap drinks and social clubs. At my uni, at least, it subsidised printing and publishing costs, the student newspapers and radio station (which provide practical and invaluable experience for students interested in those areas as well as strengthening the university community), as well as all the social and sporting organisations and countless other things that we took for granted until we realised we'd lost them.

I also study in a specialised area of the uni, and we too are short of some of the essentials in our field. Text books are no longer subsidised, courtesy of the Howard government, and therefore cost a fortune.

All these changes have taken place since I've been at uni, so I know what it's like under both systems. And I know which one I prefer. Even though I was paying money to subsidise services I never used, I was happy to know that others could use them.

bugger off.

I won't, because I have a valid (if not unanimous) point of view and I will stick to it. I listen to other views and I respond. I'm not afraid to concede a valid point, I never tell people to bugger off, and I won't rise to personal attacks, should one ever be directed towards me.

[bollocks]

Cutting out $150/semester is not the same as having free (or minimal contribution) university education. It's tokenism.

it's a start.

i know that i have $300 more for textbooks directly from this.

Unionism stretched beyond cheap drinks and social clubs. At my uni, at least, it subsidised printing and publishing costs, the student newspapers and radio station (which provide practical and invaluable experience for students interested in those areas as well as strengthening the university community), as well as all the social and sporting organisations and countless other things that we took for granted until we realised we'd lost them.

we don't get any of this. the paper isn't delivered to our campus, the social life does not extend past the main campus.

i think my money is far more valuably spent on keeping me alive, not paying for arts bints to have cheap coffee.

I won't, because I have a valid (if not unanimous) point of view and I will stick to it. I listen to other views and I respond. I'm not afraid to concede a valid point, I never tell people to bugger off, and I won't rise to personal attacks, should one ever be directed towards me.

 
 i said bugger off to the statement that student unions provide important services, not your opinon you fool.

my student union spends my contribution on nights of pizza and beer when they sit their 'parliament' and organise days that i never hear about, since they don't advertise off main campus.

useful lot, they are.

[Adi]

Point taken on all points. I realise it's not everyone's cup of cheap coffee. I don't deny that some of the union funds are squandered on useless crap. But a lot of it wasn't.

I doubt mine is a relevant argument anyway, cos I haven't heard Rudd say that they're going to bring it back in. Now that people are used to not paying the fee, I think there'll be a revolt if they try to reimplement it. All those hypocrites who complained against it and then happily didn't pay it once they didn't have to sure won't want it back now.

I'll always be anti-VSU because that's just what I believe in. But I do think that things like text book subsidies and proper facilities are even more important.

I look forward to the policy announcements about tertiary education, even if they're just election stunts. At least it'll give us an idea of what Rudd might possibly contemplate doing.

[Thaluikhain]

Hospitals = state funding

Well...except during election years...

[Adi]

My goodness, something's actually been said about education! Pity's it's the Democrats, who have a gnat's chance in hell of even retaining a senator... Even here is SA, their traditional home, the charismatic Mr X is likely to trounce them.