i don't agree with that at all yak
as I've already said, i viewed any general abuse regarding my "newbie" status as a rite of passage on this site.
BUT (wait... there's more!) bullying in real life is totally unacceptable. you seem to forget (or maybe you didn't) that people can be heartless cruel wankers. and it often doesn't "toughen you up", it just totally damages your self esteem.
Some of what you say is true. For example, some people here can indeed be heartless, cruel wankers, and yes, the definition of bullying should include bullying over phone/internet/other media.
But what exactly is bullying? I mean, say for example that you are applying for a job and have written your application. You thought you wrote it well, but in reality it reads like crap. If you showed it to a friend of yours, what would you want them to say? Would you like them to tell you that you are a wonderful unique flower and that any employer who doesn't take you on is a mean bastard with personal issues, or, would you want them to tell you that you have written crap and you should redo it if you want to have any chance of success?
OK, there is a middle ground of constructive criticism, but I'd prefer my friends not to beat around the bush. In fact, a stranger listening to me and most of my mates talk to each other could easily assume we really were constantly insulting each other. And of course, what we say to each other would mostly be inappropriate to say to a stranger. However, that's the problem with the internet. We are largely all strangers (and, to pre-empt the inevitable, some of us are large strangers), so how do we treat each other? Do we go out of our way to be polite and try not to offend anyone and make everything warm and fuzzy, or do we take the risk that others might actually want to join in a more intellectual discussion with a bit of banter, and some paying out if you do come across as sounding stupid?
None of this is to say there hasn't been actual bullying on this site. There has, and well before the current dramas. However, the current trend seems to be to label *any* negative comment as abuse and report it. The reaction in the Hothouse thread was extreme, but honestly, I thought Bludgers response was worse than Pertis. I mean, just telling someone to fuck off I think is worse than trying to be witty in explaining why the post (hypothetically) sucked. Yes, it did go too far, but I think it was a response to the overall influx of generally brainless intro threads. Hothouse didn't deserve it particularly, but seriously, some of the inanity that I have read lately has had me shaking my head in disbelief, and _some_ of the criticism directly at newbies has been, in my opinion, justified.
I'm also not sure about the "treat newbies with kid gloves" thing. At least not if it means treating them considerably differently to regulars. Lets go back to the example of my friends. As I said, most of what I say to them wouldn't be appropriate to say to strangers. But what about someone I know reasonably well and am starting to consider as a friend? Or even before I get to the stage of knowing them well, but they have potential as a friend? If they are going to fit in, they need to be able to take (or enjoy!) a bit of ribbing. Should we hide out true colours from them? If the culture of this place is that stupidity gets paid out, then I don't think it should matter if it's a newbie or a regular. I don't think there's a ritual hazing of newbies - quite a number of people here didn't experience it - but there is an intolerance of certain behaviours. Newbies are more susceptible because they are, well, new, but at what point then can you say, ok, they're a regular now, they can handle the criticism? Maybe they can't?
Anyway, this comes back to my original point. I'm not saying that we are right for wanting forum members here to be able to take a bit of slack. However, the owners of the site need to work out where they are going to draw the line and make it clear. My concern is that if you are too strict in what you term "abuse", you are going to end up with a forum full of wonderful unique flowers and mindless drivel, but everyone feels warm and fuzzy. If that happens, I, for one, wont be here. If you are too lenient, you lose a lot of newbies who could have made a worthwhile contribution. Again, there is no doubt some middle ground, but you are never going to keep absolutely everyone here happy...
