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Author Topic: Hillsong - fuck 'em  (Read 7707 times)

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Hillsong - fuck 'em
« on: October 08, 2007, 11:18:18 AM »

I know this will fall into the "TLDR" category, but fuck it. This shit is pissing me off, and the more people who discuss it, the better.

As much as I think anyone who believes in an omniscient, omnipresent (and there's one other omni that escapes me right now...) fairy that lives in the sky is an absolute nutter, I am quite happy to let people follow their religion of choice, as long as it doesn't impact on others.

Well, Hillsong affects others.

This organisation is slowly garnering a reputation of being a gluttonous, insidious organisation. This is despite its attempts to appear to be a church full of shiny, happy people.

The church was set up by a guy called Brian Houston. If you want more info about him, you can have a read here. However, one interesting tidbit from that site is:

"In 2000 Frank Houston was advised to resign his ministerial credentials by his son, Brian Houston the after Houston senior confessed that he had engaged in paedophile sexual activities with a teenage boy while ministering in New Zealand (and the fact he was gay) some thirty years earlier." (Frank Houston is Brian's father, who assisted in setting up Hillsong in Australia).

This article from 2005 details the complex financial web that the Houstons have created, involving a business called "Leadership Ministries Incorporated" (LMI) and how it's a separate entity to Hillsong. In 2005, LMI (a business that deals with the Houston's books/speaking engagements etc) generated over $1.3million in revenue. This is distinct from Hillsong's (tax free) revenue which hit the $50million mark in the same year. That's some big money being generated  - and there's a lot of dubious shuffling of funds.

So where does the big money come from? The church basically asks members to donate 10% of their wage to the collection plate. The Houstons also sell a bunch of "merchandise" related to the church's teachings, including a lovely book written by Brian called "You Need More Money: Discovering God's Amazing Financial Plan For Your Life" or his wife's three-tape boxed set called "Kingdom Women Love Sex", in which she says encourages women to lose the lard - "If I carry weight I feel like a retard ... How are you going to do anything to surprise your man when you need a hydraulic crane just to turn over in bed?" and suggests plastic surgery as an option to resolving the issue.

A critic and ex-member of Hillsong has claimed that the church's basic philosophy is that "God will repay everything you give. And the longer you have to wait, the greater the return." Yeah. That doesn't sound sus at all.

Well, Houston and his wife Bobbie (and their family) must have been waiting a while, as they own a place on a 1.2ha block at Wilberforce, and in 2002 the wife sold a $650,000 apartment at Bondi Beach, on the same block as James Packer - yet they continue to use this property. In addition, the couple's children have bought properties around the Bondi apartment, with one son paying $276,000 up front.

Hillsong argues that its funds are poured directly back into charitable offerings and infrastructure designed to help the community, through its charitable arm, Emerge. For example, there are Hillsong medical centres (which have pissed off nearby doctors who now have to compete with a tax-free entity), youth hostels (let's hope they don't follow Father Frank's philosophy!), Aboriginal assistance and crime prevention programs (like this one in which they misused a government grant).

Despite all this dodginess, I'm mostly concerned about the "insidious" aspect of this group. For example, my mother and aunt were both undergoing counselling related to childhood sexual abuse. They were seeing the same counsellor, who they had contacted via Mission Australia. They were seeing her separately, and were at a fairly low ebb in their lives as they were working their way through their trauma.

After a couple of months, my mum brought home a Hillsong CD. I asked her why the hell she had it, and she explained that the counsellor had given it to her. Now, my mum is a fairly smart cookie, and I couldn't believe that she hadn't heard of Hillsong, or been conned by this woman. She did her own research and promptly threw the CD in the bin and tore strips off the counsellor at the next session.

The scary thing was that the counsellor tried the same thing on my aunty. Apparently, she'd slowly "groomed" them by introducing discussions about spirituality etc, and a need for community, then all of a sudden it was all CDs and invites to "women's retreats". It makes me wonder how many people - obviously very vulnerable people - she had taken (and still IS taking) advantage of.

I, too, have experienced the way that these people work. A parent at my school "befriended" me - popping in after class for chats, offering lots of help. After a while, she invited me along to her "church" one weekend. Yep. You got it - a church affiliated with Hillsong.

Then we have all the stuff like the Australian Idol fiasco, and the dodginess surrounding Hillsong's registration as an ARIA outlet causing Hillsong artists to rocket up the "mainstream" charts - and you've really got to wonder what the go is.

Anyway, I've had enough of a rant now.

The following videos are compulsory viewing. Take a look at Brian Houston explaining Hillsong's "Vision", and be utterly repulsed.

Hillsong Vision: Part One
Hillsong Vision: Part Two
Hillsong Vision: Part Three
Hillsong Vision: Part Four

(P.S. Sorry Facebookians, you're going to cop this twice :P)
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Eliza

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Re: Hillsong - fuck 'em
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2007, 11:34:38 AM »

I was baptized into the Anglican faith, and I've been through phases in faith. In some periods, I've been deeply devouted to God, and other phases where I think it's all a load of bull. I now don't really believe in Christ, even though I go to a strict Catholic school.

About 6 months ago, I was contemplating joining Hillsong. Now I see that I made the right choice leaving that alone.


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Re: Hillsong - fuck 'em
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2007, 11:48:03 AM »

I'm tempted to go along one day just to watch it in action. Though I'd be a bit scared that they'd be pumping subliminal crap out through the music system and I'd have no choice but to convert :lol:
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Re: Hillsong - fuck 'em
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2007, 12:31:02 PM »

I'm tempted to go along one day just to watch it in action. Though I'd be a bit scared that they'd be pumping subliminal crap out through the music system and I'd have no choice but to convert :lol:

I did one day, I was staying at my friends house and the next morning she's like ok were going to church at Hillsong now. I'm like WHAT THE HELL, and tried to get my mum to come and get me but I ended up going. It was the strangest thing ever, there was sooo many people, it was so loud and there were people dancing beyond strangely next to me when this one song came on and I remember they had this absolute nutter of a guest speaker. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry... so I did both.
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WithTheDawn

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Re: Hillsong - fuck 'em
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2007, 01:07:50 PM »

It makes me wonder how many people - obviously very vulnerable people - she had taken (and still IS taking) advantage of.

That place would be nothing without vulnerable people, honestly. But yeah, its all pretty fucked up. The tax exempt status part really shits me, considering how much money they rake in from people. Not to mention the fact that they don't have to show where the money is going...pisses me off. Try talking to someone who goes to Hillsong about it though. They just do not get it. Keep saying "oh, but you don't HAVE to give them money...". You know what though, fine, whatever. Gullible fucking idiots are always going to throw their money away. If it wasn't at some crackpot religion, then it would be on a timeshare apartment or something.

I to have considered going along to see what its like (every now and then I get this crazy notion that I should experience things for myself before having a solid opinion on them), but having read accounts from people who have tried, I'd suggest against it. You can't exactly just sit at the back and observe, oh no! They pounce on you.
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Thaluikhain

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Re: Hillsong - fuck 'em
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2007, 01:13:50 PM »

I, too, have experienced the way that these people work. A parent at my school "befriended" me - popping in after class for chats, offering lots of help. After a while, she invited me along to her "church" one weekend. Yep. You got it - a church affiliated with Hillsong.

Ah, so is that why you had that stalker?

Meh, Hillsong can't be all bad...they are fucking reality TV up...ok, for their own evil reasons rather than for fucking up reality TV, but still it's sort of cool
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Re: Hillsong - fuck 'em
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2007, 03:08:30 PM »

The church basically asks members to donate 10% of their wage to the collection plate.
You'll find that this is pretty much standard fare in all churches, and they specify 10% of your income before tax. It's just that Hillsong, and other fundamentalist Christian churches in the US, make this sound like it's the bare minimum contribution - the more you give, the more rewards and special treatment you'll get from Jesus. Because He only loves you if you pay through the nose.

Go watch Leap Of Faith again.  :-D
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Re: Hillsong - fuck 'em
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2007, 03:13:35 PM »

Im pagan so have nothing to do with this, but some of the things ive heard about hillsong makes me think hard about being religious at all. If i had to contribute 10% of my wages, i'd be very very poor. Churches shouldnt ask for money from people. Doesnt seem right. Although i cant really say anything as i dont know the full details.
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Re: Hillsong - fuck 'em
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2007, 03:15:43 PM »

I know this will fall into the "TLDR" category, but fuck it. This shit is pissing me off, and the more people who discuss it, the better.

As much as I think anyone who believes in an omniscient, omnipresent (and there's one other omni that escapes me right now...)


Omnipotent! The Omnipotent fairy in the sky!
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Re: Hillsong - fuck 'em
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2007, 03:20:59 PM »

Im pagan so have nothing to do with this, but some of the things ive heard about hillsong makes me think hard about being religious at all. If i had to contribute 10% of my wages, i'd be very very poor. Churches shouldnt ask for money from people. Doesnt seem right. Although i cant really say anything as i dont know the full details.
Smaller churches struggle because the money raised goes to the pastor and the upkeep of the church (oh, and the tea and bickies). If you are able to afford a large church, funnelling all your cash into it, the rewards are great. Get a big place and people will come from miles away to take part in the spectacle. Lights and loud music produce many ooohs and aaaahs.

There's also the concept of collective consciousness which operates in bigger places. Think of the excitement of going to see your favourite band - when everyone sings along to the songs, you feel the electricity in the air and a collective feeling of enjoyment (a good part of the concert-going experience).

Add that to people speaking in tongues around you and falling down in ecstasy... well, it would make some gullible people very excited.
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Angua

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Re: Hillsong - fuck 'em
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2007, 03:24:42 PM »

Yeah a church recently closed down around the corner from me. Not because there wasn't enough people, but because there wasnt enough funding or priests to keep it going. Looks like theres a shortage of priests as well as nurses and teachers. What is the world coming too???
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Re: Hillsong - fuck 'em
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2007, 03:26:01 PM »

They're too busy being mesmerised by Hillsong. It's all Big Business now.
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Angua

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Re: Hillsong - fuck 'em
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2007, 04:03:53 PM »

Scary.

Talking about churches, Guy Sebastians church has gone huge now. V annoying as i have to drive past it on the way to sunday reheasals and the traffic jams are soooo annoying.
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WithTheDawn

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Re: Hillsong - fuck 'em
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2007, 04:13:54 PM »

Just run them down with your car. They love Jesus so much that letting them be closer to him is doing them a favor really. No court could possibly convict you.
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Angua

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Re: Hillsong - fuck 'em
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2007, 04:15:11 PM »

R u kidding. The majority of them drive these massive fucking 4wds. My poor little colt wouldnt stand a chance.
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