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Author Topic: A bunch of question  (Read 2586 times)

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a passing lunatic

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A bunch of question
« on: September 04, 2007, 02:54:46 PM »

Here's a bunch of questions, it's not really world politics:

How far is right vs left just a game?

To somewhat rephrase the same question, issues such as gay rights and abortion and creationism, and to a lesser degree climate change (which all have fairly solid 'mainstream' following), seem unlikely to have any particularly large conversion rates, and though it seems reasonable that people will argue about them anyway, is the selection of issues  which are forcefully argued artificially narrowed simply for the purposes of being more likely to be able to argue with any given lefty/righty? I seem to be discussing America mainly, here.


Continuing on this theme, the neo-cons seem to advocate increased social control and increasing America's coefficient of global dominance as the solution to most problems (I've read enough to convince me of this, not enough to back it up). Does anyone not think they're fucking nutters? Is their policy smart even from a strictly selfish point of view?

Would a reasonable knowledge of economics, global politics and history help me to become a better person? How?

Is fear an effective means of maintaining power in the long term? Is it good or necessary (I can accept it's effective in the short term) sometimes? It doesn't seem nice.

As a politician, being cagey or deceptive seems effective, whereas being transparent would in theory be valuable (to 'the people'). Is this more or less the case?

Is it possible to care much about events around the world without being involved in them? Is it good?

Why is the matter of whether progress in Iraq is being made up to politicians and pundits to have an opinion on? Surely that's objectively measurable.

Is there any chance that Rudd's actually got an opinion and is saving it until hopefully after he's elected? Are there any historical examples of this?

Is anyone going to do anything about Toshiba?

yay!
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DiddlySquat

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Re: A bunch of question
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2007, 07:37:59 PM »

Gotta fly now, but let me register my interest.

Thx Maru
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DiddlySquat

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Re: A bunch of question
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2007, 02:18:36 PM »

Wow. The first serious world political post for more than a month and noone's interested. I guess we really are fangirl-centric here.

To somewhat rephrase the same question, issues such as gay rights and abortion and creationism, and to a lesser degree climate change (which all have fairly solid 'mainstream' following), seem unlikely to have any particularly large conversion rates, and though it seems reasonable that people will argue about them anyway, is the selection of issues  which are forcefully argued artificially narrowed simply for the purposes of being more likely to be able to argue with any given lefty/righty? I seem to be discussing America mainly, here.

Sorry, don't follow.

Continuing on this theme, the neo-cons seem to advocate increased social control and increasing America's coefficient of global dominance as the solution to most problems (I've read enough to convince me of this, not enough to back it up). Does anyone not think they're fucking nutters? Is their policy smart even from a strictly selfish point of view?

It's the human condition. Conquer, colonise, collapse. The Romans, Greeks, English, Portugese, etc, etc all came and went. It'll happen to the US. It's a national thing that never succeeds but is always tried.

Would a reasonable knowledge of economics, global politics and history help me to become a better person? How?

Yes. It will aid your perspective, judgement and influence of others. Whether it improves your lot in life depends on how you use it.

Is fear an effective means of maintaining power in the long term? Is it good or necessary (I can accept it's effective in the short term) sometimes? It doesn't seem nice.

No.

As a politician, being cagey or deceptive seems effective, whereas being transparent would in theory be valuable (to 'the people'). Is this more or less the case?

Transparent politicians don't exist. The pre-selection process ensures that. In any case, transparency in our leaders may seem like a wonderful ideal but would never work in practice. There's always some amount of dealing, cheating, guessing that goes into the thing we call progress i.e. getting things done.

Is it possible to care much about events around the world without being involved in them? Is it good?

Yes and yes

Why is the matter of whether progress in Iraq is being made up to politicians and pundits to have an opinion on? Surely that's objectively measurable.

Some things can be measured, but every measurement will have various interpretations. For example, the current surge is producing more US casualties than ever before. Although an increase in casualties is not good, it doesn't follow that the surge isn't working and making Iraq a better place. (I suspect Iraq isn't a better place but that's just an unsubstantiated opinion)

Is there any chance that Rudd's actually got an opinion and is saving it until hopefully after he's elected? Are there any historical examples of this?

The most recent is JHo. Keating was on the nose with the elctorate, JHo knew that all he had to do was press a few negative buttons and lay low (i.e. don't release any major policies, but talk in fluffy, feel good generalities).

Is anyone going to do anything about Toshiba?

Yep. I refuse to buy one of their flat screens, if indeed they have any. Take that Toshiba :-D
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Nick 2

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Re: A bunch of question
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2007, 10:44:51 PM »

Adi is well correct, even though he seems biased towards extros.

The more you know, the better off you are. I leave it to Vitruvitus to explain far better than I could.

Quote
1. It is related of the Socratic philosopher Aristippus that, being shipwrecked and cast ashore on the coast of the Rhodians, he observed geometrical figures drawn thereon, and cried out to his companions: "Let us be of good cheer, for I see the traces of man." With that he made for the city of Rhodes, and went straight to the gymnasium. There he fell to discussing philosophical subjects, and presents were bestowed upon him, so that he could not only fit himself out, but could also provide those who accompanied him with clothing and all other necessaries of life. When his companions wished to return to their country, and asked him what message he wished them to carry home, he bade them say this: that children ought to be provided with property and resources of a kind that could swim with them even out of a shipwreck.

2. These are indeed the true supports of life, and neither Fortune's adverse gale, nor political revolution, nor ravages of war can do them any harm. Developing the same idea, Theophrastus, urging men to acquire learning rather than to put their trust in money, states the case thus: "The man of learning is the only person in the world who is neither a stranger when in a foreign land, nor friendless when he has lost his intimates and relatives; on the contrary, he is a citizen of every country, and can fearlessly look down upon the troublesome accidents of fortune. But he who thinks himself entrenched in defences not of learning but of luck, moves in slippery paths, struggling through life unsteadily and insecurely."

3. And Epicurus, in much the same way, says that the wise owe little to fortune; all that is greatest and essential is under the direction of the thinking power of the mind and the understanding. Many other philosophers have said the same thing. Likewise the[168] poets who wrote the ancient comedies in Greek have expressed the same sentiments in their verses on the stage: for example, Eucrates, Chionides, Aristophanes, and with them Alexis in particular, who says that the Athenians ought to be praised for the reason that, while the laws of all Greeks require the maintenance of parents by their children, the laws of the Athenians require this only in the case of those who have educated their children in the arts. All the gifts which fortune bestows she can easily take away; but education, when combined with intelligence, never fails, but abides steadily on to the very end of life.

4. Hence, I am very much obliged and infinitely grateful to my parents for their approval of this Athenian law, and for having taken care that I should be taught an art, and that of a sort which cannot be brought to perfection without learning and a liberal education in all branches of instruction. Thanks, therefore, to the attention of my parents and the instruction given by my teachers, I obtained a wide range of knowledge, and by the pleasure which I take in literary and artistic subjects, and in the writing of treatises, I have acquired intellectual possessions whose chief fruits are these thoughts: that superfluity is useless, and that not to feel the want of anything is true riches. There may be some people, however, who deem all this of no consequence, and think that the wise are those who have plenty of money. Hence it is that very many, in pursuit of that end, take upon themselves impudent assurance, and attain notoriety and wealth at the same time.

(Vitruvius was a Roman architect and wrote the first book on the art of architecture)
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Adi

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Re: A bunch of question
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2007, 11:28:46 PM »

Minor point - I'm actually a she, not a he :-D
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Nick 2

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Re: A bunch of question
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2007, 09:49:20 PM »

sorry. can't tell, you know
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Adi

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Re: A bunch of question
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2007, 06:37:25 PM »

No probs. My profile does say 'female', but it's too time consuming to check everyone's profiles all the time. Anyway, it's more about the content than the right pronoun.

I like the Vitruvius quote.
Quote
All the gifts which fortune bestows she can easily take away; but education, when combined with intelligence, never fails
The sentiment is so true, and put much more eloquently than we could ever say it. Not that a little bit of luck doesn't go astray sometimes.
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Re: A bunch of questions
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2007, 08:17:32 PM »

man. this topic's subject is shitting the grammar nazi within  :x
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Truckarella

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Re: A bunch of question
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2007, 08:23:31 PM »

What is the appropriate collective noun for many questions?

If the asker is under 10, then I submit 'a whine of questions.'

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Re: A bunch of question
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2007, 10:22:03 PM »

To somewhat rephrase the same question, issues such as gay rights and abortion and creationism, and to a lesser degree climate change (which all have fairly solid 'mainstream' following), seem unlikely to have any particularly large conversion rates, and though it seems reasonable that people will argue about them anyway, is the selection of issues  which are forcefully argued artificially narrowed simply for the purposes of being more likely to be able to argue with any given lefty/righty? I seem to be discussing America mainly, here.
  If i'm getting what you're saying there... Actually it's not for the purpose of arguing with a lefty/righty if Left is a political party and Right is another one. With those issues it's either you stay on 1 side or you switch to the other, It's hard to make someone switch to that other side, but yeah some of those things i've developed on my own.

Continuing on this theme, the neo-cons seem to advocate increased social control and increasing America's coefficient of global dominance as the solution to most problems (I've read enough to convince me of this, not enough to back it up). Does anyone not think they're fucking nutters? Is their policy smart even from a strictly selfish point of view?
Sorry, never really went into the neo-cons. Anything with an ISM in the end is really something you shouldn't get into. Also, up to a certain point any OLOGY you shouldn't get into either.

Would a reasonable knowledge of economics, global politics and history help me to become a better person? How?
Those who do not study history is doomed to repeat it. It makes you a better person in that way. 'nuff said.

Is fear an effective means of maintaining power in the long term? Is it good or necessary (I can accept it's effective in the short term) sometimes? It doesn't seem nice.
It all depends. But really? No. Anyone with a brain would know some sort of logical side to this "Fear" that's driving someone to take the power.

As a politician, being cagey or deceptive seems effective, whereas being transparent would in theory be valuable (to 'the people'). Is this more or less the case?
Be more valuable to 'the people'? C'mon, think about it... It would be really really hard to be transparent.

Is it possible to care much about events around the world without being involved in them? Is it good?
Yes it does, because it will help you in the long term.

Why is the matter of whether progress in Iraq is being made up to politicians and pundits to have an opinion on? Surely that's objectively measurable.
Wouldn't it be because the politicians we have to vote on? Heh, not 100% sure about this one.

Is there any chance that Rudd's actually got an opinion and is saving it until hopefully after he's elected? Are there any historical examples of this?
Yes, but now he's playing the media game and winning it for sure and.. previous posts yes, to me nope.
Is anyone going to do anything about Toshiba?
Hahaha, no idea.. I don't own any Toshiba products.
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Thaluikhain

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Re: A bunch of question
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2007, 09:28:38 PM »

It all depends. But really? No. Anyone with a brain would know some sort of logical side to this "Fear" that's driving someone to take the power.

"No, fear can't work on smart people", or "no, fear can't be used for good"?

Either way, that isn't correct.  Unless you are Mr Spock or a Cyberman (the old Dr Who ones, not the rubbish new stuff), you still feel fear, it can still affect what you do.  You try to minimise this, of course, but it's never going to go away.

As for never being "good"...well, they used to shoot deserters to scare them into continuing to fight, and some wars you really do need to be fighting.

The USSR fucked a number of things up in their dealings with the Third Reich...but losing or surrendering would have been much worse.  I'd argue that shooting deserters was justified during the Great Patriotic War, using phrases like "for the greater good" and "as long as it's not me".
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Naf

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Re: A bunch of question
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2007, 10:24:52 PM »

Technically you could say George Bush used the terrorist fear to his advantage. Upped the military budget and news reports everywhere reporting different warnings.

"No, fear can't work on smart people", or "no, fear can't be used for good"?

Either way, that isn't correct.  Unless you are Mr Spock or a Cyberman (the old Dr Who ones, not the rubbish new stuff), you still feel fear, it can still affect what you do.  You try to minimise this, of course, but it's never going to go away.

As for never being "good"...well, they used to shoot deserters to scare them into continuing to fight, and some wars you really do need to be fighting.

The USSR fucked a number of things up in their dealings with the Third Reich...but losing or surrendering would have been much worse.  I'd argue that shooting deserters was justified during the Great Patriotic War, using phrases like "for the greater good" and "as long as it's not me".
Yes you still feel fear but if a political party/politican is using some other fear into their own way? Nope. Anyone realises that one day some car bomb could acutally go off as you walk down the street, but what do you do? Just keep walking.
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Thaluikhain

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Re: A bunch of question
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2007, 07:00:52 PM »

Yes you still feel fear but if a political party/politican is using some other fear into their own way? Nope. Anyone realises that one day some car bomb could acutally go off as you walk down the street, but what do you do? Just keep walking.

Um...what are you on about?
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Naf

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Re: A bunch of question
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2007, 07:12:28 PM »

Well the point is.. basically it's the type of fear they try to put onto us that affects us.
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Thaluikhain

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Re: A bunch of question
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2007, 07:14:19 PM »

Well the point is.. basically it's the type of fear they try to put onto us that affects us.

What do you mean "type of fear"?

Do you mean fear of real threats, vs fear of things made up to frighten us?  If so, I agree, the fear campaigns around do sort of require a public with the intellect of a rotten tomato.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2007, 07:16:09 PM by Grover »
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