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Author Topic: Right to vote  (Read 3291 times)

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a passing lunatic

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Right to vote
« on: June 12, 2007, 10:16:38 AM »
Some program on radio national (google it yourself) that says the libs relatively recently introduced electoral reform which, among other things, denied prisoners the right to vote, and someone's now challenging it.

Why wasn't this a big deal at the time the reforms were introduced? (was it? certainly it wasn't as big a deal as WorkChoices). I thought that "the idea" of democracy (or, at least, one of them) was that everyone (everyone of sound mind, according to the program) can and should vote.
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The Rogue Doll

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Re: Right to vote
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2007, 10:40:04 AM »
Because nobody likes prisoners?

I don't know. It's scary thought though.
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grooviechickie

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Re: Right to vote
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2007, 11:03:32 AM »
Friggin' J'Ho. He needs a bitch-slapping.

Just because prisoners include the dregs of society (much like the Liberal Party) does not mean they cannot vote. Who the hell do the Libs think they are? They do not hold a monopoly on ethics and morals. Prisoners are still Aussie citizens and therefore still have the right to vote.

Can't be fucked googling anything right now, but will still heartily voice my opinion (as usual).  :-D
« Last Edit: June 12, 2007, 11:05:17 AM by grooviechickie »
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Darq Gus

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Re: Right to vote
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2007, 01:22:11 PM »
I've heard of some countries (or their states) blocking ex-cons from voting, which is dodgy. Once your time is served, and you're returned to society rehabilitated, welcome back Kotter.

But I thought being imprisoned meant that you were forcibly removed from society on account of your crimes against it, so why the inalienable right to contribute to how society is governed?
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grooviechickie

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Re: Right to vote
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2007, 01:24:25 PM »
But you can be imprisoned for breaking the speed limit, ffs. Does that mean you don't have a right to vote?
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Lord Biscuit©

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Re: Right to vote
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2007, 01:27:27 PM »
Quote from: Darq Gus on June 12, 2007, 01:22:11 PM
I've heard of some countries (or their states) blocking ex-cons from voting, which is dodgy. Once your time is served, and you're returned to society rehabilitated, welcome back Kotter.

But I thought being imprisoned meant that you were forcibly removed from society on account of your crimes against it, so why the inalienable right to contribute to how society is governed?

It used to be that if you were 'in' for less than 3 years, you could still vote. Now if you go to jail for one day, voting day, you don't have the right to vote. Seem fair? Seems dodgy.
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Frazzy?

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Re: Right to vote
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2007, 01:36:05 PM »
A friend of mine may be spending a short time in jail around election time because he kicked a door off (literally off...) a nightclub off while drunk, and couldn't pay the fine within the time they demanded...   
and he would pay the fine if it wasn't actually more then a months entire pay...

so if he does go to jail, and doesn't get to vote,.. essentially he prevented from voting because he's poor..
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Darq Gus

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Re: Right to vote
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2007, 01:50:21 PM »
I don't think he was banned from voting because he was poor, a minority, or his fundamentalist scientologist beliefs. I think he was banned from voting because society said he had to pay for his violent outburst, either in monetary reimbursement, or a short spell in the slammer.
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Lord Biscuit©

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Re: Right to vote
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2007, 01:52:31 PM »
Quote from: Darq Gus on June 12, 2007, 01:50:21 PM
I don't think he was banned from voting because he was poor, a minority, or his fundamentalist scientologist beliefs. I think he was banned from voting because society said he had to pay for his violent outburst, either in monetary reimbursement, or a short spell in the slammer.
That's like a 3 year sentence. The courts give him a few days, the fed government give him 3 years. Fair?
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Re: Right to vote
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2007, 02:26:50 PM »
I think losing the right to vote, even for one election is a bit of a high price to pay for kicking a door..
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TuxedoChampion

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Re: Right to vote
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2007, 02:47:51 PM »
One of the purposes of putting people in jail is punitive.  That obviously involves the destruction of some rights.  For example, the right to freedom.  Now, you're all kicking up a fuss about prisoners' right to vote.... but as compared to the right to freedom, it's a pretty minor thing.  Not that I agree with stripping prisoners of their right to vote.

Imagine a situation where the proportion of imprisoned people is increasing due to stricter Criminal Codes and penalties, and all the while those same people are unable to vote out the Government who made the changes to put them in jail: it's the beginning of totalitarianism.

The reason for the changes are clear - a higher proportion of people in prison are likely to be 'Labor voters' as opposed to 'Liberal voters'.  It's part of an insidious scheme of gerrymandering in order for the Coalition to retain power.  As one legislative change, it means little, but when you combine it with other alterations that have been made to the enrolment and voting processes it will have an impact on the outcome of the next Federal election.

It disgusts me.  Vote Labor at the Federal election.
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Re: Right to vote
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2007, 03:11:27 PM »
Is it a minor thing?..   what if you've been put in jail for breaking a law that you and others disagree with?  you'd want the right to vote for someone that would legalise it..

or, in the case of my friend,.. who more fairly could be offered community service rather then jail time.. could vote for someone who'd perhaps support fines being based on earnings...  or that community service always be offered if the fine is more then you earn,... 
or at least be given a fair amount of time to borrow/steal/busk/run away!
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TuxedoChampion

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Re: Right to vote
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2007, 03:23:18 PM »
Your friend had the right to vote for change at the previous election - if he felt that strongly about it, he would have done so (and he might have done so anyway).

In reality, he only cares about these laws now because they are directly impacting on him.  A bit of a selfish way to see the world really.

Besides, he has his own bad behaviour to blame - not the structure of our penal provisions.
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Tuxedo Champion

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Re: Right to vote
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2007, 04:23:11 PM »
I think the right to vote can be a symbolic right as much as anything (and in this case, possibly is, as TuxChamp said .... I think), but it seems to me that people who have an issue with the law shouldn't be denied the right to have a say in how the country is governed, even if they don't particularly care. If the government is fair (fair meaning accepted by most people) then great, the people who have issues will be in the minority and that's that.

Also, for people who are in jail a lot, this could sort of give the feeling that everyone else is putting them in jail.
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Thaluikhain

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Re: Right to vote
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2007, 05:45:14 PM »
You fucking well should have the right to vote if you are in gaol.  The right of everyone over 18 to vote is a given, no exceptions.  Where does it end?  If you set a precedent for some people being denied the vote, then it makes it easier to deny others.  You have to draw a line somewhere, it should be drawn at "everyone".
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